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H2B caferacer tuning project and other info dyno charts, etc
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BBP
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Joined: 13 Jan 2014
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Location: Dayton, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

H2Yogi

OK , understood on the EX port..........that makes a lot of sense, the EX port does very little at BDC..........as Blowdown is where most of the flow occurs............and when the transfers begin to open.............pressure in the cylinder should be less than the pressure in the crankcase (1.5 bar or so)............so keeping the port diameter similar all the way is most important then..........learning all the time  cheers

That Martin Frame is Beautiful and Very Rare...............does it have a different rake and trail angle than standard H2...........if I remember, I think early H2 is 28 degrees, H2B\C is 26 maybe.........I think Leos Modded frame is 24 degrees (better for cornering)............And Mono Shock, can't even see any of it..........that frame (and the bike) is a work of Art !!!

18 years on the KR750.............with no major maintenance..........that's impressive..........I would think it would run much different than an H2

I was showing my friends a picture of your H2 with the custom cylinders.........you made those ?...........are they sand cast ?............with a steel or aluminum liner..........I like the big fin's..........the heads are neat too........what do the ports look like ?..........I am fascinated with that motor...........please tell us more about it............and show us some PIC's if you can (and the KR please)

Good Stuff......... Thanks for posting........Glad you and JP are Friends..........he is a real triple enthusiast........I don't even know if he has a car   LMFAO

THX Phil  salut
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husson73



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 2707


Location: PARIS FRANCE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin frame those seen on H2yogi pictures are very rare there is a controversial story about numbers made 6 or 10 but everybody agree about the fact one bike burnt.
Very special frame made specificially for H2 only ordered by friends who lived on both sides of the french:swiss border ion the early 80s.

Here pictures of my own H1 with Martin frame built on the 70s (with Martin title that is very rare only 2 of the 15 built had a Martin title) which is very different (bad copy of Egli frame). I got as basket cases and still in boxes: would run for H1 50th anniversary so 2019.





frame alone




The work done by H2yogi on barrels heads is rather impressive  cheers
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Jean-Pierre Ch
90 MC1 74 x 2, 350 F9 72 (disassemble on 1980!), 350 S2A 73, 500 H1 69, Martin frame 500 H1 (basket case), 750 H2 71, 750 H2A 73, 750 H2B 74
and some other bikes
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BBP
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Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 2169


Location: Dayton, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JP.............Interesting...........so it uses the H1 engine as the stressed member..............no bottom frame tubes (Vincent's are like that, my brother has one).............it has the 70's race bike look for sure.............it is kind of different and cool in it's own period correct way..........sounds like you have some projects  Cool

Chromed is pretty neat looking IMHO............I really like that Martin H2 frame............so, one burned.............it must have really burned bad (softened steel maybe)..........one would think the frame would be OK...........unless burning really bad

THX Phil  salut
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jyrg



Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 787


Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Made another H2 tuning configuration than I use to that got finished earlier this summer.

It's a 73 H2 With Jim Lomas STREET pipes, SSO billett heads and VM32 With UFO and inlet rubbers and Ramair70mm filters.

Below dyno sheet is before and after portwork. This job was done With torque as the goal, not peak Power.

But still, peak Power on crank is above 100. As you can see, the long JL pipes made the bike enter powerband at 4200 rpm prior to portwork, and 4400 post portwork.
2.gear Power wheelies all day long. Power and torque at almost all revvs is higher after portwork , inlet tubes and SSO heads innstalled, than With Stock cylinders. VM32 used on both dyno run.

Man....those pipes are torquey, and now the bike also revvs a bit more than before. Tuning is FUN :-)
Ex duration is Close to Stock.

Inlet duration is Stock.

Transfer duration Close to Stock.

Blowdown in degrees Close to Stock, but blowdown area way higher, and that is what Counts. Going for bd figures in crankshaft degrees (like 30) is not very valid.


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BBP
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgen

At the top left of the chart, is the HP reversed from Torque ?............it shows..........105.7 Torque..........and 92.2 as Horsepower...........I am thinking 105.7 HP

WOW, that is a strong motor down low.......strong period...........interesting...........so no lift plates then...........no cut piston skirt.........SSO good heads, probably has good high compression with close to stock EX duration, good for low end power.............wider EX port and reshaped for good Blowdown, proven best method........do you now what degrees you ended up with for EX (178 stock), IN (150 stock) and transfer (118 stock)

A German guy at Mid-Ohio 2 years ago had those Lomas street pipes before I bought K2TEC............I spent a lot of time looking at those pipes (trying to decide what to get)..........they are different...........real long header pipes (and not tapered)...........then the chambers start way back and are nice fat pipes from there on..........they are really long........they are good looking pipes..........I always wondered how they perform............now we know  Very Happy..........seem like they would be fun street bike pipes looking at the dyno

That's impressive for a VM32 UFO'd carbed non lifted motor, probably has real good throttle response............I would think the power would carry out further with some bigger carbs.........but the long pipes would hinder that some

Great Work and Good Stuff...........been kind of quiet here

I got 1050 miles on my new motor..........I love it...........It is such a fun bike..............I got another tach that works (well, they sort of work but read high).............I saw it hit 10,200 RPM about a month ago...........it was still pulling, but time to shift  Shocked  (probably more like 9500 RPM in reality, who knows)...........but with the 187 EX, 155 IN and 126 transfer.........still very street able and with the zeel advance to 27 down low..........has good low end............wheelies with a flick of the wrist.........thanks again to you and Nev for some good tuner wisdom........the 4.5 cutaway on the TMX 38 is perfect..........59 needles now..........still on 290 mains to be safe............15 pilots and very sensitive to air screw 1 1/8 turns out........head temp is 200F by the plug which is good...........will get it dyno'd later this year

THX Phil  salut
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jyrg



Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the top left of the chart, is the HP reversed from Torque ?............it shows..........105.7 Torque..........and 92.2 as Horsepower...........I am thinking 105.7 HP


No phil, it is 105,7 in torque. (Nm) Equals to 77.96 ft/lbs. On my dyno sheets, where Nm is the torque parameter, you will see the power curve and torque curve have same values at 7121 rpm. If ft/lbs is used, same number is 5252 rpm.
One known wannabe-tuner (like myself I might say) once wrote motors have a torque dip in the 5252 rpm area. Yeah right :-D

This motor was ported for torque. Exhaust port lift 1mm, but squared and widened to 70%.
Inlet untouched
Transfers maybe 0,5mm raise due to the blueprinting process. (it was BAD)

No head gasket, that made the squish 0,85mm. Perfect.

And yes, the JL street pipes headers are tapered. All sections are quite long, and belly diameter ia 102mm. They are  pipes for street use, have the most torque.
Before portwork, they peaked at below 6000 rpm. Boring. Now, she revvs more, thus more hp. (due to a bit higher duration, but also due to a whole lot more blowdown. To summarize a bit, that improved blow down leads to lower pressure inside cylinders at the time transfer opening. Then, we get more fresh charge up into cylinders because they are not pushed down into crankcase again from the cylinder pressure, and therefor you get more power at higher revvs as seen on the dyno sheet) And also more torque. Love it.

105,7 rwhp with pipes getting into powerband at 4200 rpm with stock cylinders and such small carbs is impossible I think, without totally ruin the low and midrange power by having like 200 degrees ex duration.

The owner may try putting on 38's. If he choose that, I guess we will see close to 100 rwhp. If he sacrifies a bit low end by raising inlet duration, he will definitely reach 100rwhp and then some, without raising ex duration any further.

Good to see you are happy with your bike Phil. Dyno next then......
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BBP
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgen

Been Stupid Busy with Telecom Work, school starts in 6 business days.........I will re-read your post and reply then my friend..........so have not been on here last two weeks much........but will be soon.........and thanks for posting good tuning info

THX Phil   salut
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