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Transmission locked third time -- need serious help please.
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BarryB



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 53


Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Transmission locked third time -- need serious help please.  Reply with quote

None of the dowels are crushed etc. Everything is tight in the casing etc.

First time the transmission locked while riding, would not move out of whatever gear I was in.

Open it up and saw a broken circlip and thought just age.
(first picture below).

Replaced it with the newer ones. Got a few short test rides around the block and it locked again...

This time the newer clip I replaced was out of place. Probably me since they suck to install - even with a good set of clip pliers...
(second picture below).

BUT -- in the interest of age and two casing splits in a few months -- I sent both transmission shafts and complete shift drum to Paul Gast.
He did a complete overhaul and BC.

Back together everything seemed fine, got down the block and it locked again - would not shift -- stuck in 3rd gear. Took off chain and pushed home.

Opened it up expecting something broken - but everything looks fine.
(third and fourth pictures below).

+++ What am I doing wrong or not checking? The pawl and all bits are fine, nothing bent, nothing broken etc.

When I dry shift everything seems OK. I do have to jiggle a couple of gears to get them all to move into place but that's normal right? I can also dry shift with the cases bolted together. I can usually get through the gear changes by spinning the primary shaft in the drive direction or by spinning forward/backward a few times to get the gears to slide in... usually.

Is there some special sequence not in the manuals or something else to align?

I'm stumped and at a loss. Three casing splits in a year is a but much. Argh.

First:


Second:


FBG pics:



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Battleax



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 325


Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be that the grooves in the transmission shafts have a rounded edge and when there is pressure against the circlip, the clip pops out of the groove and the gear moves over to far.
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BarryB



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 53


Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Battleax wrote:
It could be that the grooves in the transmission shafts have a rounded edge and when there is pressure against the circlip, the clip pops out of the groove and the gear moves over to far.


I inspected the shafts the two times I fixed it and it's fine.  Gast inspected too and his rebuilt trans did not break any circlips -- but the trans still froze...
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Zambia



Joined: 12 Sep 2016
Posts: 160


Location: Campbellville Ontario
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's disheartening - is there any way the cases might have become distorted?
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BarryB



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 53


Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Ian -- don't see how and don't see anything not mating up.  Remember I know this bike after almost 40 years and only me riding it.
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Battleax



Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 325


Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry, what about the shift forks? I have looked at many and I'm not sure how you would make sure they are not bent.

You have not doubt changed components, but the issue is reoccurring. So, to state the obvious, it has to be a component that is carried over from one build to the next.

From the pictures that you supplied it appears there has been a lot of side pressure put on the clips. So there has to be something causing that force.

You know this bike very well, you will get it, it's too bad you're 800 miles away, I'd like to see it.
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Darth
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Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 8540


Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do the shift fork guide bolts look like ???

Could it be that the grooves in the drum are worn ???

Your description makes me thing it's more of a fork to drum relationship ... more so than the gears/splines ... scratch

How about the little indexing pins in the drum ???

This does sound REAL interesting ...
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BBP
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Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 2067


Location: Dayton, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BarryB........sorry your having issues, obviously something (shimming ?, shim's, clips or grooves, forks ?)............hope everything else is good

Just a thought............send it to Mark at R&D motorsports..........he requires the engine cases, transmission, shift drum, shift forks, kickstart shaft and gear, and all the shift parts on the right engine case and springs

You could at least call him and tell him what it's doing, he is a great guy, loves triples, and does awesome work........he makes his own shim's and uses some of his own parts.......and could do the shift claw (no over shift)

he shims his differently than the moto manual..............I know mine works flawlessly..............so just a thought..........3X apart is a pain and not worth getting hurt


He builds drag bike trans, road racer's, bonneville and street bikes all around the world......he likes to talk and explains in detail what he is going to do (best read the motometal manual before you call, so you know what he is talking about).......he is at 727-447-4552 in Clearwater, Florida

THX Phil  salut
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BarryB



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 53


Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind I had Paul Gast do the transmission this last time - and required the shift drum with forks.  All of that was OK> no marks, groves chips, wear etc.

The spring stop, pawl/claw, pins etc are all fine. No wear, nothing bent.

I notice I can go through changes easier without the shift shaft/pawl.

Here's a couple of Vids to show:

Without shaft
[/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRXAL_JlrB4[url]

With shaft
[/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYBo_3HruGQ[url][/url]


Link



Link

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Desmodog



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 536


Location: Palm Harbor
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBP wrote:
BarryB........sorry your having issues, obviously something (shimming ?, shim's, clips or grooves, forks ?)............hope everything else is good

Just a thought............send it to Mark at R&D motorsports..........he requires the engine cases, transmission, shift drum, shift forks, kickstart shaft and gear, and all the shift parts on the right engine case and springs

You could at least call him and tell him what it's doing, he is a great guy, loves triples, and does awesome work........he makes his own shim's and uses some of his own parts.......and could do the shift claw (no over shift)

he shims his differently than the moto manual..............I know mine works flawlessly..............so just a thought..........3X apart is a pain and not worth getting hurt


He builds drag bike trans, road racer's, bonneville and street bikes all around the world......he likes to talk and explains in detail what he is going to do (best read the motometal manual before you call, so you know what he is talking about).......he is at 727-447-4552 in Clearwater, Florida

THX Phil  salut


+1 on this idea from Phil...(sorry Jay).....but i've heard nothing but great things about this guy,....not just triples....but my racing buddies at MotoCorse in Ft Lauderdale send all their Ducati transmissions to R&D!!!
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