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jeff kushner

need a manual for a Force 85HP outboard engine

I thought that maybe I should have posted this in the triples section since it's a 2 stroke triple.....LOL

I had d/l'ed most of the manual from Ebsco before they went "for cost" but of course missed the section on the trim/tilt motors and cylinders. Now, my engine is slowly settling back to plumb after being trimmed while running. The tilt motor and cylinder are fine since it lifts the engine right up so I can place the rest bracket for it. It's just that a check valve or seal is leaking but since I don't see any fluid, maybe there's a CV in there....but without a diagram, I can't tell what's supposed to be there.

If anyone has a link to a free manual or a pw logon to Ebsco, it would be greatly appreciated. BTW---Indianhead/trail don't work any more.

J
12dot

Jeff: Maybe if Jim H. (adrenalinejim) sees this --- he might be able to help - he's "into" outboards.
thebykerbandit

Don't know if it's any easier to get, but are they not just rebadged OMC motors and the early ones were rebadged Chryslers
H2 Brad

Jeff, I am not very well versed in outboard lingo. Is there a model and serial number for this engine? If so give me that info too and I will see what I can find. I am pretty good at researching this type of stuff as I do it for work quite often. Just not for outboards. Worse case will be asking my friend Johnny. His Dad owned a marina for many years and Johnny ran the service department. He now lives in Wisconsin and works on boats for a living. We do a lot of covers and interiors for him (his customers) so he may have one too.
Very Happy
jeff kushner

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Brad- I am at work so I don't have the model 3 but it is a 1985 Force 85 HP. They produced a manual that covered the 1985-1999 3-150 HP.

The Bandit is correct. Force has been owned by Chrysler then Brunswick, then US Marine in 1984....so I guess that's whose engine I have. then it was sold to Mercury and at least one other.

They are no longer made and were considered by "boat people" to be a low end engine.....however given it's an outboard (easy to work on) and a two stroke (even easier to work on) I decided to buy my boat even though it came with a Force engine. Kind of interesting for me since I swore off Chrysler outboards 20 years ago as the worst engineered POS's EVER built to clamp to the back of a boat. I have had extrordinary luck with my engine though...other then a starter being installed improperly, it's been great! Pushes my Maxium runabout 43mph and after I installed trim tabs, handles the water as fine as a 17 footer can. I almost hate to say it, but no complaints...
H2 Brad

Here's one option.

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/foroutrepman.html
12dot

Quote:
They are no longer made and were considered by "boat people" to be a low end engine

Jeff: FWIW - That's exactly what I remember about them when they first came out -- they were referred to as "something less" than high quality motors.
H2 Brad

Free owners manual pdf to download.

http://www.reinsmith.net/gallery/...125_HP_Outboard_Owners_Manual.pdf
H2 Brad

PDF copy of the service manual for $7.95

http://outboardmotorservice.info/ads/9123745/
jeff kushner

Thanks everyone, especially Brad.....I just got login and pw sent to me for the new Ebsco host section....so if anyone needs anything, let me know!!

I'm downloading my sections as I type this...YEA!!!
J
jeff kushner

12dot wrote:
Quote:
They are no longer made and were considered by "boat people" to be a low end engine

Jeff: FWIW - That's exactly what I remember about them when they first came out -- they were referred to as "something less" than high quality motors.


Yup, sure were...kind of like the "Bayliner" of the outboard world. Mine is almost 27 years old though, and has never been apart further then to replace a water pump impeller as part of yearly maintenence....I replace it every year, along with the lower end grease, syncing the triple carbs etc....it's lived while friends have spend ungodly amounts on mercs, evin's etc....and it's lived while they spent more money getting them fixed....and my cheap p.o.s., hasn't cost my 100 bucks in 20 years beyond yearly maint<LOL> Guess I got lucky!!
H2 Brad

When I was a sales rep for Duo-Fast I sold to OMC in Beloit, Wisconsin for their packaging needs.
Jim

12dot wrote:
Jeff: Maybe if Jim H. (adrenalinejim) sees this --- he might be able to help - he's "into" outboards.

Tom, actually I am more into inboards (even easier to work on than outboards).  I do have a couple outboard motors, but not the one that Jeff needed the manual for.  I'm glad he found what he needed.
12dot

Quote:
replace a water pump impeller as part of yearly maintenence

You're a better "maintainer" that I am - I don't replace the impeller until it quits working Embarassed .
12dot

Quote:
(even easier to work on than outboards

Say What  Very Happy  Very Happy  Razz  NO way -- I don't need to "dig through" any floorboards, etc. to get at my outboards - all I have to do is "easily" pull off the upper cowling.  Razz  Razz  Very Happy
It's like the difference between working on a triple vs. working on a modern "plastic" bike.  Very Happy
thebykerbandit

jeff kushner wrote:


Yup, sure were...kind of like the "Bayliner" of the outboard world.


We had them together over here, the "Binliners" used to come as a package deal with Force outboards ready fitted  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
12dot

Quote:
We had them together over here, the "Binliners" used to come as a package deal with Force outboards ready fitted      

Very Happy  Very Happy  That's EXACTLY what was offered over here too.
Jim

12dot wrote:
Quote:
(even easier to work on than outboards

Say What  Very Happy  Very Happy  Razz  NO way -- I don't need to "dig through" any floorboards, etc. to get at my outboards - all I have to do is "easily" pull off the upper cowling.  Razz  Razz  Very Happy
It's like the difference between working on a triple vs. working on a modern "plastic" bike.  Very Happy

Yes, way!  My 1967 Correct Craft Mustang has a hinged engine cover that I lift with one hand to expose the entire 289 Ford engine and Borg-Warner Velvet-Drive transmission.  My 1973 Super Sanger has no cover over the 427 Chevy or the V-drive transmission.  Both are easier to work on than an outboard, and much cheaper too, since most of the parts can be purchased at the local discount auto parts store.

Maybe you were thinking of an inboard-outboard?
12dot

Quote:
Maybe you were thinking of an inboard-outboard?

Razz  Razz  Razz  Ok - Let me put it this way  Very Happy  I just replaced the water pump impeller on my kicker motor - a 2004 Yamaha 9.9 hp.
Let's see - remove 4 bolts to drop the lower unit - pull off said lower unit - take to workbench - remove 4 more bolts to expose impeller - slide up and remove "shot" impeller - slide down new impeller - reverse process to re-install on motor.

You wanna run down the same process to replace the water pump on that 427  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
Jim

The 427 has one water pump, which is a rubber impeller type pump driven by the cam.  It's out in the open, and I don't have to take off a lower unit or anything else to get to it.  I can change the impeller by removing four screws and taking off the cover, or I can take the whole pump off by disconnecting the water lines and removing two bolts.
H2 Brad

Yeah but adjusting the valves is much easier on the two stroke!
neener  Wink
12dot

Quote:
It's out in the open

That's cheating..........................................
Jim

H2 Brad wrote:
Yeah but adjusting the valves is much easier on the two stroke!
neener  Wink

I suppose so... I do like 2-strokes, you know.  Most V-8s have hydraulic lifters that don't normally need adjustment though.  Having spent many hours using and maintaining both outboard and inboard boats, for me it's no contest... inboards with automotive engines are much easier to work on and much less expensive to maintain or even rebuild.  Obviously some folks prefer outboards or stern drives.
H2 Brad

I just figured in a marine application and because they are older engines that they may have solid lifters.

I'm just jacking you anyway. I would not want an IO mainly due to some of the shallow lakes I would end up using it on but either an outboard with power tilt and trim like my buddies have or a full inboard would be my choice. Of course it would have to have a BB Mopar engine.
Very Happy

My Great Uncle, who was one of the 3 founders of Camcar (and very wealthy) had a beautiful vintage Chris-Craft with a V8 inboard. I think it was either a 283 or 327 but it was too long ago to remember. He had a house in Trinke estates on Lake Geneva. Had a private lagoon for the boats. We used to spend quite a bit of time up there as Dad was given permission to use the place. My Great Uncle and his Son's family rarely ever used it. Those are some great memories!
Mr. Green
Jim

Those wooden Chris Crafts are works of art.  A friend had one when I was growing up.  The original 6 cylinder engine (a Hercules maybe?) eventually rusted through, and he put a 327 Chevy in it.  It was no race boat, but it did pull 9 skiers out of the water at the same time once.  I asked the friend how much throttle it took and he said "about half".

No doubt that in some shallow water situations, like tidal marshes, an outboard has that big advantage of being able to lift the running gear.  Of course a big block in an air boat is good for those places too.
jeff kushner

I gotta agree with Tom when it comes to ease of maintenence of I/O's & I/B's compared to outboards. I've lived on or near the water (Chesapeake bay) since I was six years old and the plain truth remembering that we have salt and brackish water here, is this;

A inboard will need replacement of either the heat exchanger(if fresh water cooled) or worse, the heads on average, every 3-5 years.  An inboard/outboard is worse....they will not only need the heat exchanger (if fresh water cooled) or heads replaced but will also need the outdrive replaced depending on use, every 2-6 years. The heads on a 4.3Merc or whatever size their 4 banger is, gets close to 3 grand around here and the outdrive gets the same or more. And God help you if you need the gimbals serviced or a main seal replaced.

Most people around the bay don't or can't work on their engines and the marinas really rape them and worse, they are blatant about it. Twenty years ago I had a guy GIVE me a 16' Chrysler boat with a 55HP on it after spending $600 at the local marina to fix "a switch that causes the engine to shut down if it's out of balance"...LOL. When he took it out for the very first time afterwards, it started and when he put it in forward and gave it gas, it died. The marina told him they would warranty the switch but he would have to pay $550 for the labor. An hour after he gave me the boat, I found the culprit...a bad check valve in the squeeze-ball. I told him to take it back home and enjoy it but he was so disgusted at being ripped off so badly, he didn't want the boat back.

So part of my distaste for inboards or I/O's comes from that, the other part comes from having to pull an engine just to get to the starter to replace it.....many are just too poorly engineered for boat use and NO ONE has ever sold an outdrive that wouldn't break in a couple of years.

I'm def an "outboard" guy....clean and simple to work on....besides, mine's a two stroke triple, what's not to like<LOL>?

You guys are right about the old Chris-Crafts...stunningly beautiful woodwork and a super stable boat. We have a couple in my neck of the woods and unlike most of the boat owners around here...their owners actually put gas in them and use them. Since gas has gone up so much, there are so many idle boats.....people bought them when gas was cheap but now the idea of burning 100 bucks in a day or less keeps them at the dock or on the trailers. My neighbor across the street was bragging that one tank will last all summer in his 26' two year old Sea fox...it's a nice boat but I was laughing hard on the inside when he told me that(I guess he forgot that I'm his neighbor and see how often he takes it out)....last year he took it out twice, in total. This year it has gone out 2 times, but there's always Labor day!! LOL

Ah well....if anyone needs a manual for a bike, boat engine, other small engine of any kind, let me know and I'll see if they have it for you.

j
12dot

Jeff, Jim, Brad (what the heck  Very Happy everybody) --- We could throw
"Jet-skis" in here also  Rolling Eyes  We have 2 Polaris SLT 780's (of COURSE - they're 2-stroke triples  Very Happy ) but I AM impressed with the design of those motors - they're inline 3's of course, but very accessible - not that I have had to do much on them. They put out 90 hp. and will pull a skier VERY easily. Oh - they DO have one design flaw, however --- reverse  Very Happy
H2 Brad

I would own a Jetski long before I would own a boat mainly due to my own logistics. If I have to haul something to water I would rather it be something small.
Very Happy

Of course I am sure you all know what boat stands for?

Break Out Another Thousand!
Wink
Jeff D

H2 Brad wrote:
I would own a Jetski long before I would own a boat mainly due to my own logistics. If I have to haul something to water I would rather it be something small.
Very Happy

Of course I am sure you all know what boat stands for?

Break Out Another Thousand!
Wink


Another thousand or three ( my canvas work I'm getting done )
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