Archive for Kawasaki Triple Owners Group Welcome to “The Fellowship Of The Ring-Ding!” KTOG is a group dedicated to the famous Kawasaki S1, S2, S3, H1, H2, and KH series triples.
 


       Kawasaki Triple Owners Group Forum Index -> Triples Talk
reagan

Denco Porting

I,m looking at diffent stages of Denco porting specs for my 74 H1. I can,t decide between the 70hp, 75hp or the 80hp stages. I would like to keep stock pipes and air box less snorkel. Does anyone out there have experience on any of these porting specs with my setup. Or do I need chambers to use these porting specs. I read that the stock porting is good enough, just get chamber and bore carbs out to 30mm. Any thoughts?
H2 Brad

Without chambers it won't be worth wasting time on. Contact Moo (John). Denco specs are a bit outdated and he does porting and re-cuts the heads. He is very helpful and can advise you on what you will need to get where you want to be.

http://kawasakitriples.myfastforu...ile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19
mraxl

+1

IMO, if you want performance enhanced, good chambers are first on the list.
To realize the benefit of porting, chambers and larger carbs are needed.
12dot

Quote:
I read that the stock porting is good enough, just get chamber and bore carbs out to 30mm. Any thoughts?

Reagan: I w/b curious to see the source of that info.
As said by the other guys - if you want to improve the performance of a 2-stroke - the one thing to do is improve the exhaust sytem by going to expansion chambers.
Keep in mind - the stock exhaust was/is designed to be a "compromise" to let the engine work in all conditions - it is NOT designed to provide "maximum" power.
Also - boring 28mm carbs out to 30mm has no big effect on performance -I have tried it - not worth the effort.
Walms

Used carbs 32-34mm are plentiful and cheap on ebay... Also better designs for making carb mains and pilot changes. It only took me one time to dismantle a stock H1 carb to know I wasn't going to use them....  Rolling Eyes

Just my 2c
LC

There are a few easy things to perk up your '74.

Remove intake horn on top of airbox.

Advance  ignition timing to 24-25 degrees.

Replace air filter with a free flowing unit.

Be sure your muffler baffles are clear.  

These alone will cause a re jetting of the carbs.

Be sure you follow all the steps of carb tuning at the resource site.

If you want to go further remove cylinders.  

The first thing to go after is the liner cutouts at the transfer entries. Your late cylinders will need to be raised to resemble the early cylinders. You can go a bit higher, but leave a big radius on the intake side. This is to leave enough material to support the lower liner from cracking over to the intake port.

All the above mods will get you back almost to what HP the early 500 had (early mufflers were better for performance).

Want more? Do you have a steady hand with a die grinder?:

Raise the exhaust port .060in. (maintain the same radius as the stock port had). Taper the change all the way out to the exhaust flange (no sudden angle changes in the port ceiling) If you can feel any change of angle with your finger keep on going. Don't forget to re-chamfer the liner's edge when done. While you're here you may as well check the port alignment with the pipe gasket and compare with the pipe. The idea being is to perfectly match the EX port outlet to the pipe's ID.

Cut the rear piston skirt .080in. Do this across the skirt that is visible to the intake ports and leave small ears on each side.

Don't try to increase compression as todays fuels won't support the increase without further head work.

You will lose some mid range with the above but it will definitely be a stronger engine even with mufflers. The cost to you will be your time, gaskets and jets.  

Further info on the above can be found here;

http://kawtriple.com/tripleed/4way/


J
12dot

Scott: Maybe I should send him my Denco port map?
BTW: Did you ever use that ??

Reagan: By all means - heed LC's suggestions - they're ALL good ones. Very Happy
LC

Hi Tom,

Your Denco 95 map has been used for reference only at this point. Funny thing is the map's port position is quite a bit tamer than what I ran back in '74. (The spec I used was the hottest listed in the above noted mag article but with proper chambers and 34mm carbs).

^^ I started screwing with this stuff at age 16- 17 Shocked

J
Walms

LC wrote:
Hi Tom,

Your Denco 95 map has been used for reference only at this point. Funny thing is the map's port position is quite a bit tamer than what I ran back in '74. (The spec I used was the hottest listed in the above noted mag article but with proper chambers and 34mm carbs).

^^ I started screwing with this stuff at age 16- 17 Shocked

J



Yeah, but lets not forget that "LC" stands for Loonie Cylinders...  Mr. Green
12dot

Quote:
^^ I started screwing with this stuff at age 16- 17  

You DID start young  Very Happy -- I was still concentrating on plain ole "fixing things" at that age - I wasn't about to mess with the "hi-tech" stuff like porting. scratch  Very Happy
LC

Walms wrote:
Yeah, but lets not forget that "LC" stands for Loonie Cylinders...  Mr. Green


thumright

J
JA-Moo

I started at 14, with a lot of help (I didn't know jack, I just wanted to go faster Razz ) First 2 wheeler was a 71 Kawasaki MT1 75 minibike, a friend had a 4 speed Honda trail 70 that was faster. One of my parents friends in the neighborhood had a son that was about 7 years older and had a bunch of bikes. I told him I wanted to go faster, and he said we had to port my cylinder. I had no idea what he meant, but called the Kawi shop and they said "sure"! So they ported the cylinder, and my friend explained what was done and why. Back then, (or probably ever) you couldn't get a pipe for one of those, or any bigger carb set up without a lot of work. I was faster than my buddy for a while, then not anymore. I asked if there was anything else we could do, and raising the compression was next, that kinda evened us up, but soon he was beating me again. By then it was time for a new "big bike" and a gleaming Yellow 1972 G5 100 was mine. It wasn't till years later I found out my buddy in the trail 70 was doing the same thing as I was! Wink  His brother was a mechanic and they had a big bore high compression piston and cam. (Powroll I think)

I was hooked on "performance" so the G5 didn't last long "stock" and got a pipe, then I cut the rotary valve, and finally a centurian cylinder. She was fast, but died a hard death.

But back to the thread, I usually recommend Pipes and getting air in the motor first for new guys. (good tune up and jetting of course) The weight loss from the pipes helps with the power to weight ratio, and you get more RPM and better power. (good pipes)

The 500's were always lacking in low rpm power, and contrary to popular belief, the big "power hit" we all love, actually comes from the motor not working well at all at lower rpm, and then coming  in to "working well" very quickly in the RPM band.

The next step is a bit cloudy, as to get more power, you need more timing duration. Bit the added intake timing causes even more reversion in the intake tract, messing up the low end power, and raising the exhaust lowers compression, again hurting low RPM power. So any time you raise the exhaust port, some head reworking or cylinder decking really should be done.

Finally after porting and head work, you go to bigger carbs, as they only really help with higher rpms, and the port timing has to be correct to flow enough for the added RPMs.

Getting into stage 2 porting, you get into another bag of worms.

I would recommed, do things bit by bit until you get the power you want.
12dot

Hey LC: I just read part of your linked article --- we better hope reagan DOESN'T read the 3rd column on Page 1  scratch  Razz
BTW -- Are you running Wheelsmith chambers??  Very Happy

Also: Does the pic on the btm. of P. 4 and the comments about parts "ring a bell" with you   scratch  Rolling Eyes  Razz
reagan

Great info guys. What chambers is recomended. I only see a few producers, and once and a while ebay.
12dot

reagan wrote:
Great info guys. What chambers is recomended. I only see a few producers, and once and a while ebay.

We have a gentleman in our midst that makes Denco "copies"  (and IMO - at a very reasonable price) Be prepared to be put on a waiting list.  
http://www.lakeserv.net/kaw/chambers/
H2 Brad

reagan wrote:
Great info guys. What chambers is recomended. I only see a few producers, and once and a while ebay.


Jim, one of our members, makes beautiful Denco replicas. You can't go wrong with these and they are very affordable.

http://www.lakeserv.net/kaw/chambers/
12dot

Reagan:  scratch  Razz  What more do you need --- 2 - count'em 2 - recommendations for the same guy/company.
Kinda scary, huh  Razz
(Sorry Brad - I beat ya' to it)  Razz
JA-Moo

And then there is Jim at Lakewood or land, some wood thing that makes pipes............
JA-Moo

And I "missed" the article LC put up. It's amazing how times and motorwork has changed. What year was that article written?
H2 Brad

12dot wrote:
Reagan:  scratch  Razz  What more do you need --- 2 - count'em 2 - recommendations for the same guy/company.
Kinda scary, huh  Razz
(Sorry Brad - I beat ya' to it)  Razz


Well done Tom. I'm slacking!
Wink
H2 Brad

JA-Moo wrote:
And then there is Jim at Lakewood or land, some wood thing that makes pipes............


I think he went out of business and now sells black spray paint for Duplicolor. Or maybe it's Krylon?
blackeye  Razz
H2 Brad

JA-Moo wrote:
And I "missed" the article LC put up. It's amazing how times and motorwork has changed. What year was that article written?


Cycle Guide, Sept. 1971.
JA-Moo

H2 Brad wrote:
JA-Moo wrote:
And then there is Jim at Lakewood or land, some wood thing that makes pipes............


I think he went out of business and now sells black spray paint for Duplicolor. Or maybe it's Krylon?
blackeye  Razz


Dupont I believe, the snob........... Razz  Razz  Razz
JA-Moo

H2 Brad wrote:
JA-Moo wrote:
And I "missed" the article LC put up. It's amazing how times and motorwork has changed. What year was that article written?


Cycle Guide, Sept. 1971.


I always get a kick out of old performance articles. One I found funny was a total "hop up" of the Suki 500, lathed flywheels, crankcase stuffers, cut heads, special porting and expansion chambers, and maybe bigger carbs.

End result........ as quick as a STOCK Kawi 500..... owch! Embarassed
Johnny0

Now he made me cylinder adapters last week, and mine didnt come painted Rolling Eyes
12dot

Quote:
I think he went out of business and now sells black spray paint  

GREAT post  LOL  LOL
(For NOT getting much sleep -- you're pretty darn sharp today Brad.  Very Happy )
H2 Brad

12dot wrote:
Quote:
I think he went out of business and now sells black spray paint  

GREAT post  LOL  LOL
(For NOT getting much sleep -- you're pretty darn sharp today Brad.  Very Happy )


Why thank you kind sir!
salut


I am getting a bit tired so I think I will sleep well tonight.
cheers
H2 Brad

JA-Moo wrote:
H2 Brad wrote:
JA-Moo wrote:
And then there is Jim at Lakewood or land, some wood thing that makes pipes............


I think he went out of business and now sells black spray paint for Duplicolor. Or maybe it's Krylon?
blackeye  Razz


Dupont I believe, the snob........... Razz  Razz  Razz


Ahhhhhh...one of them there high-falutin' types.
blackeye
LC

^^^^^What a bunch of jokers! Very Happy

Ya circa 1971 (age 15) I learned to ride on a borrowed Suzuki 150 twin (with an altered 1970 licence plate for sneaking it out on the street).

A few months later bought a smashed up '69 Mach 111 (behind parents back as they forbade me to have a bike).  Embarassed  Had to take drivers licence test upon turnig 16 on a friend's G4 100, as the triple still needed a few things. It was activated for the road shortly there after.....

So, while my buddys were destroying braincells and getting laid there I was screwing with "Junk". Ohhhhh the addiction to the narrowing peripheral vision with the onset of tremendous velocity is truly addictive!! Very Happy

"And now back to our regular programming":  The above mods will give a reasonable boost in performance for VERY little money spent (As in a high school kid has NONE)!  

Lifting the exhaust port .060 has minimal effect on compression pressure. If you need to regain some ditch the head gaskets and use a smear of RTV instead. There is still tons of squish clearance with the stock cylinder left.

As for the intake "reversion" this will not really increase much if the poster continues using the stock rubber intake runners. The use of plastic plumbing and pods reportedly works even better.

The side effect?  Next the poster will be complaining of a slipping clutch!

I always had the fastest 500 amongst all my buddies back then. Later on H2s became my "victims". I'm starting to feel these young whippersnappers nipping at my ankles now. Time to return to my old ways! Evil or Very Mad

J
12dot

Quote:
A few months later bought a smashed up '69 Mach 111

SOOOO - Were you riding that Mach III at age 16 ?
(Neat little history about you - "J" --- helps explain a lot)  cheers

Quote:
The side effect?  Next the poster will be complaining of a slipping clutch!


Razz  That's what we (and reagan) are hoping   salut
LC

Tom,
I never seized or broke anything due to my doings. However I DID experience 2 crankshaft failures at the hands of "KLOTZ special formula oil" (with techniplate)!  Fu@king bearing rot synthetic GARBAGE! the fingers  the fingers  the fingers  the fingers  the fingers

J
12dot

LC wrote:
Tom,
I never seized or broke anything due to my doings. However I DID experience 2 crankshaft failures at the hands of "KLOTZ special formula oil" (with techniplate)!  Fu@king bearing rot synthetic GARBAGE! the fingers  the fingers  the fingers  the fingers  the fingers
J

Nice to see it didn't bother you (much, anyway)  scratch  Razz
I s'pose we won't be looking for a recommendation for Klotz oil from you scratch
LC

Ya, I bought the 500 at age 15 and had it hidden at a bubby's Dad's warehouse (same buddy loaned me the $150 to buy it). Used to hook off school all the time to work on it (tore it down to the frame and then some). Flunked  Gr 9 too!!  

Parents finally cornered me and wanted to know where the little money I had had gone (starved at lunch too so the $2 daily lunch money I was given could go to bike parts). Told them I bought a"Kawasaki" . Three times my Dad asked what size and I kept replying "A Kawasaki". Finally admitted it was a 500 to hear the reply "That's much too big". Little did the folks know it was the HOTTEST thing on the street at the time!

Finally was allowed to bring it home so I did so: Boxes/frame/engine all loaded on a wooden toboggan (literally dragged it home on the snow)!

Parents offered to pay insurance as long as I would get car licence too. (There was a deal from the Govmt to pay $25 and if in an accident you pay for it for the rest of your life) The Folks knew this was my intent due no $$$.

J

Edit:  The '69 gas tank and side cover from that bike is on my present 500.
JA-Moo

It really depends on the owner and what he wants. I didn't get my first 500 (73 model) untill I was 20 in 1977. It was totally stock, and "I thought" a rocket, having not ridden anything bigger than my 100 and 90 a few years earlier (had to move out of the house before I could get a big bike, (ANTI-motorcycle mom)

That didn't last long with me, and very soon, the timing was reset to 25 degrees and the baffle blocking plates got a 1/2 drill run through them. Per a old hop up article. That lasted until I could save up for a set of chambers a few months later. That still wasn't enough, so on went a set of 30mm carbs from a H2. That still wasn't enough after a couple of months, so off came the cylinders and the porting began. But due to the ingestion of copus amounts of nitrus oxide the porting ended up a bit wilder than antisipated.

The bike was fast, from 9500 to 11000 rpm, but any other rpm and you could actually walk faster than the bike would accellerate.  blackeye

By then, the bike wasn't fun anymore, and after riding a 1000 Kawi, it's fate was sealed and it was sold off.

So yes, you can do the cheap mods, and let your personality take you from there.  Wink
LC

Reagan,

Another suggestion for pipes (look absolutely fabulous and several configurations available too) shoot Walms here a pm!

J
LC

JA-Moo wrote:
but soon he was beating me again. By then it was time for a new "big bike" and a gleaming Yellow 1972 G5 100 was mine. It wasn't till years later I found out my buddy in the trail 70 was doing the same thing as I was! Wink  His brother was a mechanic and they had a big bore high compression piston and cam.


Too FUNNY!!!!!! Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

J
JA-Moo

LC wrote:
JA-Moo wrote:
but soon he was beating me again. By then it was time for a new "big bike" and a gleaming Yellow 1972 G5 100 was mine. It wasn't till years later I found out my buddy in the trail 70 was doing the same thing as I was! Wink  His brother was a mechanic and they had a big bore high compression piston and cam.


Too FUNNY!!!!!! Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

J


Kids are so trusting........LOL
       Kawasaki Triple Owners Group Forum Index -> Triples Talk
Page 1 of 1